TT #14 - HOW TO EXPLAIN FRUSTRATION
Posted by anthonynorth on July 22, 2008
I haven’t done Thursday Thirteen for a while. My health meant I had to cut down, but I enjoyed it! So I’ve slotted it back in.
13. Is it a problem at work? Is it something you can’t quite grasp? Is it a woman (or man)? Or do you have a pimple on the end of your nose? Whatever it is, it’s none of them really. It’s just – frustration!!!
12. We all suffer from it – constantly. Things just don’t go right. This is wrong. That is wrong. The world is wrong. Or maybe – are you ready for this? – or maybe, it’s just you who’s wrong. And it’s so damned frustrating!!!
11. Life is a compromise.
We don’t like to admit it, but it is. But a compromise between what? Well, between what YOU want out of life, and what life allows you to do. And there’s a sensible reason why. Even if it is damned … well, you know.
10. We all have goals in life. If we don’t, we don’t really live. And those goals are based on our selfish needs – our urge for advancement. But society needs a degree of order. If that wasn’t the case, all we’d have is chaos. So life HAS to be about give and take.
9. It’s a good job this is the case.
You see, frustration can be so life enhancing. It drives us on to do things, to think things, to be things. In this sense, frustration is not a hindrance, but a creative capacity in life.
8. Unless you’re too impatient. If so, then frustration can cause violence. If you descend to the ‘it’s not fair’ crap, then instead of being creative, you punch out, attempting to knock down those obstacles instead of being ingenious, and working round them.
7. Frustration therefore offers us choices.
The choice to excel or fail. To be someone, or nobody. To evolve, or devolve. To be good or bad. Frustration is moralizing. Perhaps if we realized this, we’d be able to handle it better.
6. But frustration is also something else. Just imagine a world without frustration. Wouldn’t that be nice? You’re kidding! What would you do? Isn’t frustration the thing that drives you on? Without frustration, you’d never do anything.
5. But it goes even deeper.
Maybe frustration isn’t only a personal thing, but a social thing, too. Could it be that frustration is a vital element of what we do as a society – as a species, even? Let me explain.
4. One thing I’ve noticed about history is that thinkers will have a good idea for change, but in order to get the message across, it becomes sensational. The result of this is that revolution usually occurs, and the idea becomes extreme.
3. This, in turn, alienates many people who don’t like it. Thus, they get frustrated, which inevitably leads to conflict, and a new good idea comes out of this – but in order to get the message across it becomes sensational ….
2. What a vicious circle our society becomes. But interestingly, this could well be the valid process of social evolution. Which means, dear reader, frustration is the driving force of advancement.
1. Maybe, if we realized this, we could ease our general frustrations just a little, and make that advancement a little less extreme. I suppose it’s all about balance. And nothing is more frustrating than getting the right balance.
© Anthony North, July 2008
July 22, 2008 at 9:01 am
What frustrates me is people who never seem to get frustrated. No.. I love them. Bless their perpetually optimistic existence.
“If you’re not angry, you’re not paying attention.”
July 22, 2008 at 9:06 am
Hi Arrrgh!
I’ve heard such a species exists. Though I suspect various motives behind them - denial, just don’t want any trouble, etc.
But each to their own, I say.
July 22, 2008 at 12:42 pm
I am so frustrated right now. No, really. I actually am trying to get my life in balance and it is extraordinarily difficult. Your post struck a chord with me. You mentioned your health in the beginning. Are you well? I do hope so.
July 22, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Frustration really is the driving force of achievement. I agree. It’s good to recognize and take the challenge!
July 22, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Well - I’m frustrated already this morning AN
I’m not a meme sort of person, so don’t know much about any of them. I followed the link you provided at the top of your post, hoping to find out what The Thirteen meme is all about. After scrolling and scrolling up and down and around that site I can find no explanation of the initial premise. Maybe I’m just not in 2nd cup of coffee mode yet. Hopped to the forum where it’s promised we shall be told about the meme, but after a quick glance frustration took over, and I returned to the sanity of Beyond the Blog.
You’re right about it being a potent driving force though - most times, anyway.
July 22, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Hi Selma,
Hopefully things will be going good soon. As for my health, it’s just the chronic fatigue thingy. My mind wants to do, but the body is a spoil sport. Keeps telling me ‘no.’ So I had to cut down a bit. Which is damned frustrating.
Ah! That’s apt
Hi Sandy,
Indeed. Of course, it’s a nuisance, but I suppose that’s part of its importance.
Hi Twilight,
May those frustrations be little ones
I’m not a meme person either. I do the prompt sites because they kickstart the creative juices without imposing too much on you. Thursday Thirteen is the only exception regarding memes, mainly because it isn’t really a meme at all.
You can do anything with it, as long as there’s thirteen. Have a click on my Thursday Thirteen category and see how differently you can work on it. People do everything from 13 related pictures, to 13 lines of poetry, to me - usually an essay with 13 paragraphs.
When you link the post to the site on Wednesday night (GMT), you gain access to a lively and friendly community there.
July 22, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Balance is indeed the difficult part. It’s the getting there that seems the frustrating part. I agree that frustration is the leading cause of change. Not always for the better, but the leading cause. Very well done as always. Have a great day Anthony.
July 22, 2008 at 4:18 pm
. . . or maybe, it’s just you who’s wrong.
Well, let’s see. We might experience frustration with a hangnail, for example. Not a big deal, but annoying nevertheless. Many people experience frustration with their work, their partner, their kids, their favorite sports team, their government, their world. Depression is epidemic. Is this not indicative of frustration carried to an extreme?
But what is frustrated, and what is causing the frustration? Is frustration an indicator of an external factor, or something else?
Nearly everyone would claim it is driven by external factors. And sometimes groups of people decide that they share a common external frustration. And then what happens?
Collective frustration with the King of England led to the establishment of the United States, but frustration with the extant native culture in the Americas led to the eradication of that culture. Frustration with heretics led to the Spanish Inquisition. Frustration with the royal family led to the Bolshevik revolution and the eventual butchery of Stalin. Frustration with Germany following World War I led to the Treaty of Versailles, which in turn led to the frustration of the German people, that led to the rise of Hitler and the Thousand Year Reich. Mao achieved power by exploiting existing frustration. Radical Islam exists today because of frustration with Western culture, and frustration with other religions, as well as factions within their own.
So what is the source? Frustration is clearly experienced as real, but what drives it? Does the solution to frustration and resulting contentment come about from changing external factors? If so, why are so many still frustrated? Why does contentment remain elusive? And if not, what might lead to the elimination of frustration?
Food for thought.
July 22, 2008 at 4:30 pm
I hope you take care of your health first and foremost, memes and prompts aside. I feel frustration with all sorts of things, but the resulting stress is very bad for me.
July 22, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Hi Sandee,
Thanks for that. Yes, certainly, change isn’t always for the good. But as I point out towards the end, maybe that’s because of the sensationalism involved in the message of change, leading to fanaticism. And in my book, fanaticism is always wrong.
Hi Michael,
I think I answer this in the comment to Sandee immediately above. The relevant words I use in the post are:
‘… the idea becomes extreme. This, in turn, alienates many people who don’t like it. Thus, they get frustrated, which inevitably leads to conflict …’
I think we’re geared to over react to any idea, or change. They’re arguably external sources, but the idea of a person becomes action through consensus, and consensus is something that gets inside you, regulates your own actions and views.
Eliminate frustration? Well, we’d be in danger of eliminating change. Would that be the end of advancement? With our present mind-set, I think so.
Hi Brian,
Yes, frustration can cause stress, certainly. It’s a matter of management - which I often fail with myself.
July 22, 2008 at 8:23 pm
Eliminate frustration? Well, we’d be in danger of eliminating change. Would that be the end of advancement? With our present mind-set, I think so.
I think the elimination of frustration will accompany the elimination of the current mindset, leading to a pinnacle of advancement while ushering in dramatic change. It all goes back to the loss of idealist philosophy, Anthony. We imagine our frustrations are external to us, but in fact they are ultimately due to our individual interpretations of our own thoughts about life and reality itself. We will always encounter others who share our interpretations, which then leads to consensus and reinforcement that we’re on the ‘right track’. Yet, we’ll just as certainly encounter others who conflict with our given mindset. It is the failure to see ‘thought as thought’ which continually keeps us off track, and prevents us from recognizing the common denominator between ourselves and everyone else on earth: we are all responding or reacting to our own thoughts about reality in the moment.
We look at history, recognize that mindsets have changed over time, recognize that competing mindsets are still among us, and hope or assume that mankind will eventually arrive at a particular shared mindset that will solve our ills. Yet few look deeply enough within themselves to discover what the mindset itself actually is. Idealism tells us to not just perceive, but to perceive with full awareness that we are perceiving. Rather than “I am frustrated”, one sees themselves as perceiving frustration: “I see that I’m experiencing frustration”. Doing so consistently leads to the discovery of one’s own mindset, and change then occurs naturally from within; it requires no active effort. Frustration, and other misunderstandings, just fall away. What remains is heightened awareness, and healthy skepticism, along with an openness to new and fresh thoughts. We may still find ourselves experiencing frustration, but once it’s recognized for what it is, which is our own thinking, it loses its permanence. If frustration leads someone to discover this, it has served its purpose, and the person is then free to discover new aspects of life and themselves unencumbered. Discovery, or the will to, does not cease.
I’m suggesting that frustration will continue to drive individuals and societies in both positive and negative directions until such time that there is a rediscovery of the nature of the mindset itself, which is directly related to the rediscovery of the truth of idealism. At which point frustration will be largely resolved, and humanity will live with the understanding that we are each limited in the given moment by nothing more than which thoughts we choose to give life to. The advancements that will come about when this is widely understood are entirely inconceivable from our current perspective, because our current perspective is limited by our current mindset.
And we are limited only because we have lost the understanding of how we limit ourselves. And just recognizing that can either be frustrating, or amusing, depending on how we happen to be looking at it in the moment.
July 22, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Hi Michael,
I think our mind-set has changed quite a lot over time, and still is changing. Indicators come from such evidence as the lack of introspection in ancient texts, to the abilities to think in parallel in computer game-playing kids.
However, I’m not so sure that any change could be as radical as you seem to suggest. I may be wrong, but I get the feeling you are suggesting a form of conclusion to the human experience as we know it.
I’d opt for a more subtle cvontinuance of transition of our mind-set. Indeed, maybe not even that.
You see, I don’t think the kind of intuitive knowledge you’re speaking of ever went away. It simply went out of fashion - ignored by the established paradigm. It’s still around in the mystic, etc. So maybe a ‘transition’ would come from a reinterpretation of how our established knowledge is gathered. In other words, a realignment of the intellectual consensus.
I suspect we’re both on the same journey, only on slightly different paths, my way centred around P-ology, and forming a connection between different knowledge appraisals.
July 22, 2008 at 9:48 pm
Michael H., you hit the head right on the nail. Modern, at least Western, society no longer espouses the individual. A collective mind-set will define its frustrations by external forces; the individual mind-set, while recognizing the external catalyst, will use reason as the means to exist and come to terms with the frustration. Many are frustrated because we’re told we should be–the political atmosphere in the U.S. is a good example. Religion teaches us to be frustrated by a world that doesn’t follow the prescribed path to peace and harmony. Social engineers and some educators teach that our frustrations are do to the fact that such-and-such a government isn’t doing enough for us, so we must wait for the government to do more. The collective mind-set sits and waits for the proverbial ship to come in, a hoped-for Armada of entitlements and excuses to be bartered and sold in the marketplace named “Elections”. The individual, frustrated by the ‘current mindset’, refuses to wait in line, but looks to him- or herself as the means by which provisions can be attained. This is a positive aspect of frustration, and is sorely needed. For the true individual, there is no Virgil to take them by the hand and guide them through the underworld of self. Excellent post, Micheal H! Oh, hi Anthony!
July 22, 2008 at 10:06 pm
Hi John
July 22, 2008 at 11:27 pm
I may be wrong, but I get the feeling you are suggesting a form of conclusion to the human experience as we know it.
“As we know it”, is the key phrase. And yes, you are correct that I’m suggesting that it will involve a newfound respect for intuitive knowledge, which has not entirely disappeared. The level of respect we currently give intuitive knowledge though, is demonstrated by the terminology we use. I’m envisioning the day when the ‘mystic’ will be redefined as the ‘realist’.
I think you’re also right that it will likely involve a gradual rather than radical transition; at some point a critical mass of humanity will have individual subjective realizations that will lead to a new consensus. Our current consensus is based on objective knowledge, the future consensus will be based on subjective understanding.
I agree we’re on the same journey - I think it’s only journey anyone is on. There are countless paths, but they all lead to Self-realization.
Which brings me to John. Thanks for the comments, and you’re correct in identifying that there’s little appreciation today for the value of the individual perspective. We are told what to think, but never taught how to think. (Almost no one understands the difference anymore.) As you wrote, “For the true individual, there is no Virgil to take them by the hand and guide them through the underworld of self.” We are on our own, and frustration with how things are can be a valuable catalyst in genuine progress, which always begins on the level of the individual. The danger comes about when the collective concludes frustration with how things are involves external solutions.
I’ve been reading some Emerson lately, who was insistent on Self-reliance. Two quotes:
“The only progress ever known was of the individual.”
“Leave this hypothetical prating about the masses. Masses are rude, unmade, pernicious in their demands and influence . . . I wish not to concede anything to them, but to . . . divide and break them up, and draw individuals out of them.”
It does appear to me that too many people are too willing to turn over their own minds to someone else’s authority; Emerson’s been largely ignored. And the sad thing is, what he understood was that everyone on earth has everything they could ever need, lying dormant within, awaiting discovery. One need only go find it.
July 23, 2008 at 1:06 am
Michael, two phrases struck me as important: “I’ve been reading Emerson lately…” and “…Emerson’s been largely ignored”. The first says a lot about you, the second a lot about the current mindset. (I’ve been on a Kierkegaard kick lately; it should last about two more weeks.) Enjoyed your posts, Mike.
July 23, 2008 at 2:27 am
Hi Anthony,
I think that a lot of the frustration in today’s world is driven by our collective materialistic mindset.
If society (driven from an individual level) became focused on spiritual growth rather than material gain (which does nothing to enhance genuine personal happiness, once survival needs have been met of course!) then I feel that the world would be a much happier place.
This doesn’t mean that frustration wouldn’t still exist but if we all felt that we were achieving genuine ‘inner’ growth then perhaps there would be much more harmony in the world and possibly accelerated progress in our search for self-realization of which intuitive knowledge is one aspect (at least thats what my intuition tells me…..I think?!).
This would possibly also help in breaking down the barriers between specialists in the longer term.
July 23, 2008 at 7:24 am
Good morning Michael,
I think I captured the essence of your message about frustration in my post, when I said:
‘Life is a compromise. We don’t like to admit it, but it is. But a compromise between what? Well, between what YOU want out of life, and what life allows you to do.’
Now, you’ve been making me think deeply over the last couple of days. The reason for this is that I like the idea of idealism (pun intended), but I intuit a definite eschatological strand to your writing, which always worries me.
In essence, I think mankind has always had three ways of thinking - the scientific/technological, the religious/spiritual and the philosophical/intuitive. The problem of the human condition is in the balance of these three ways.
What I’m about is the restoring to a prominent position of the last, but without totally denying the other two. I think what you’re working towards is the subjugation of the first two in preference of the last.
To me, this is counter to the diversity that allows nature and evolution to thrive. In my mind, a single system always holds errors. But I’ve been unable to capture what is wrong with it. Hence, last night I decided to strip away idealism to its simplest explanation. In this way, I find the patterns are more easily identified.
Now, idealism is all about the importance of mind over the material. But it struck me, who’s mind are we talking about? If mind is all, then we are talking about the existence of universal consciousness. Hence, everything is ‘mind’. In effect, the planet has ‘mind’, and constructs its reality accordingly.
If idealism is correct, we also have the ability to construct our own reality, but it would have to be WITHIN the constructed reality of a higher mind, such as the planetary. Which means, no matter what reality we intuit, it would rub against the reality intuited by the planetary. That construct would be ‘hard’. Hence, the material would exist.
I’m convinced that ‘reality’ is a constant web of different consensual realities, rubbing together in higher and higher forms. So I am an idealist, but if we take idealism to this logical conclusion, then the only ultimate idealist would be, if he exists, a supreme god.
In other words, at our level of experience, I suspect there are limits to what idealism is.
Hi John,
I think a person can only truly understand Kierkegaard by following his thoughts to their conclusion - in other words, what happened following him, right up to Sartre.
An idea, initially used to save God from reason ended up doing more damage to God than any other thought, ever.
Hi Chris,
Yes, I think you’ve got it about right. You see, no system of ‘control’ can control you unless it offers you something in return. With modern materialism, what is offered is the lie of material wealth and luxury. If we collectively said ‘no’, super-capitalism would disappear.
Sadly, though, it would ultimately be replaced by another system which duped us into believing it was good for us.
July 23, 2008 at 10:26 pm
Interesting one for TT! Thanks for sharing… Mine’s up too hope you can drop by… Happy TT!
July 23, 2008 at 10:27 pm
Hi Prettylifeonline,
Thanks for that. I’ll be dropping by.
July 23, 2008 at 10:31 pm
I needed this post yesterday. I had a very frustrating day!
July 23, 2008 at 10:31 pm
I too stopped doing this meme for a few weeks because of health, and like you enjoy it so much I am now back
Great comeback post, and thank you so much for stopping by! Happy TT
July 23, 2008 at 10:33 pm
Hi Chelle Y,
Sorry about that. But remember it for next time
Hi Sue,
I guess it’s like a drug. We just have to have our fix.
July 23, 2008 at 10:35 pm
I hope your health is getting better as soon as possible, take care! I like your list very much. I can relate to so much of it!
My TT is about Luxembourg.
July 23, 2008 at 10:37 pm
Hi Tink,
Thanks for the best wishes. And I’m glad you liked the post.
July 23, 2008 at 10:37 pm
A long time ago, my employer told me something that has helped me through many decades…”100 years from now it’ll make no difference”. I love him for this inspirational thought he shared with me….it’s helped me many a times with a frustrating situation.
Mine’s posted. Come by if you can find time.
July 23, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Hi Hootin Anni,
That employer had some good advice there.
July 23, 2008 at 10:46 pm
I’m so sorry to hear you’ve had health problems. I hope that clears up very soon. I had wondered what happened to you!
Yes, frustration. Boy… there’s a lot to say there!
Happy TT
July 23, 2008 at 10:51 pm
Hi On A Limb With Claudia,
Thanks for the best wishes. I’m a cfs sufferer and sometimes I just try to do too much. But I’ve fitted TT back in
July 23, 2008 at 11:30 pm
My frustration is with the economy, the current US administration (or lack there of), the invasion of Iraq and so forth. Happy TT.
July 24, 2008 at 12:39 am
I think mankind has always had three ways of thinking - the scientific/technological, the religious/spiritual and the philosophical/intuitive. The problem of the human condition is in the balance of these three ways . . . What I’m about is the restoring to a prominent position of the last, but without totally denying the other two. I think what you’re working towards is the subjugation of the first two in preference of the last.
Not at all, Anthony - I think the three disciplines are just different aspects of the same thing, though I do think that philosophy is the aspect that leads to the realization. I wrote the following in a recent blog post at the Grail, which grew out of reading Hall’s manifesto and reflecting upon the loss of morality that has accompanied the loss of idealism over two and a half millennia:
Now, idealism is all about the importance of mind over the material. But it struck me, who’s mind are we talking about? If mind is all, then we are talking about the existence of universal consciousness. Hence, everything is ‘mind’.
Including us!
Also, I’m sure you’re not the first to identify an ‘eschatological strand’ in my writing, but what I’m really about is prodding people towards the individual realization of the universal consciousness within themselves.
I think that realization is available to anyone who embarks on Self-discovery, and also that the realization itself is free of any specific doctrine. Those who don’t want to look for themselves, who do want doctrine instead, might just consider that they are an aspect of the sacred, as is everyone else, while everyone of us is completely immersed within the sacred, which is ultimately all that exists. If the collective were to base all of their choices on that understanding, I somehow think a great deal of of our conflicts and frustrations would simply fall away.
It sure makes ethics easy.
Anyway, I don’t think we’re far apart at all, and I’m happy to hear that your wheels are turning. While I suspect you’re right that “‘reality’ is a constant web of different consensual realities”, where we might differ is that I think the realization and understanding of the final, underlying, universal consciousness is always available to any given individual who is willing to look beyond the consensus ‘reality’.
Consequently, I see idealism limited only by any given individual’s depth of realization of what Plotinus called The One.
July 24, 2008 at 12:43 am
Hi Anthony,
The way I was thinking about this was that if a large percentage of us all continued taking steps towards self-realization then any system created to dupe us (by the ‘non self-realized’ materialists) would fail as we would have become self aware and the ’system’ would disappear just as you have indicated with super-capitalism.
I know that this seems like a pipe dream but it is similar to what you are trying to do with P-ology: “Nothing ventured, nothing gained.”
I guess its the ‘conservatives’ that keep the world going ’round’ but its the courageous, lateral thinkers who take it forward (the potential value of the result outweighs the fear of ridicule).
July 24, 2008 at 3:11 am
Great list. I can relate..Happy TT
July 24, 2008 at 3:19 am
Hey Tony,
I think you make some good points. I suppose in a way frustration could be a sort of organic impetus or challenge. Though I think that most frustration comes from miscommunications, with those around us, the world outside and even in some cases not having a clear idea or understanding of what it might entail to get what we want. Though, further communication is probably key, I think spending some quality time with self wouldn’t hurt either.
Annie
July 24, 2008 at 3:58 am
Great post. Frustrating.
SJR
The Pink Flamingo
July 24, 2008 at 7:29 am
Good morning Pussreboots,
The things on your list are frustrating, indeed. The real problem comes when it turns to resignation.
Hi Michael,
The unity of the three thought systems was holistic in nature. Today, we are specialised, hence the fragmentation. Personally, I think both ways of thinking hold problems. What I’m in search of is a balance between the two.
You’re right that the world seems to offer choice between ’self’ or doctrine, which in many ways is what the above essay is about. Hammering home the message that it is doctrine only because we allow it to be is a better way of countering it, I think, than offering ‘realisation’. You may be right, but who’s message is the easier to grasp and act upon?
We must try to do what CAN be done, I think.
Hi Chris,
Yes, you’re absolutely right, but I refer to my comment to Michael. Basically, often what is right is wrong because it simply cannot be done. Such realisation is something that must be approached in small steps, I think, beginning with the message.
Hi Lori,
Many thanks. That’s what it’s all about.
Hi Annie,
Miscommunication is a valid addition to the subject. So often it can be key to frustration. I wonder if the cultural ’system’ could be rigged to increase this. I’m thinking of spin, propaganda, etc, obscuring the real message, for instance.
Spending time with ’self’ is always a good idea. I do it a lot myself. Wish I knew how to get more and more to do so, though.
Hi SJR,
Many thanks. Glad you like it.
July 24, 2008 at 7:37 am
oooooh i HATE frustration! I’m devolving as we speak i guess… happy TT!
July 24, 2008 at 7:46 am
Hi Elaine,
Liked that comment. I guess it’s that hatred of it that makes you strive to lessen it
July 24, 2008 at 8:00 am
Tony, great post, very stimulating and so totally enjoyed the dialog between you and Michael. Between you almost any thing which could be said HAS been said. Your background experiences have taken you both in much more sophisticated directions than my own, tho all this is close to my heart. I honestly think that ‘frustration’ is primarily a result of wanting to control things which are outside our realm of control. It would be so helpful for us to realize that we can only control our own focus of thoughts - not what comes into our mind, but what we choose to focus on and hold there. We are complex, body, mind, emotion with more powerful, but less tangible parts as well (soul, intuition etc.) We have desire and goals, wants… and when we are thwarted in our efforts, we can suffer pain, frustration, despair and so on.
While you say that frustration can lead to greater effort and even accomplishment - there are many who simply see the ‘block’, a disappointment, and what does this bring us? Certainly not anything that feels good. Possibly this should suggest to us that maybe we are seeing things in a way not appropriate for us at this moment. Intuitively, we know something is wrong. Instead of sinking into frustration or worse, we can choose to change our direction of thought. Can we probe the situation for the reasons of our feelings? Is it not our expectations (our own thinking) which is causing the pain? If we can recognize this as a truth in our reality, then I would agree with Michael, it can just fall away and requires no active effort because its true. Some of us however, need a little help finding tools to help us grow. We need to recognize that we have done, thought or constructed some thing which has brought these difficult ‘feelings’ strongly into play and that it is our own actions, thoughts, etc., that we are dealing with - not the world or them blocking us. So taking charge of how we are feeling can become an important step along the path.
So before the feelings mushroom into passionate urges which are not healthy, a wise person recognizes, senses, how he is feeling and takes hold with whoa, lets take a look at options here and remember what the goals are (and being happy should logically be one of them). Your antenna-like probe comes up searching for equilibrium, potential, possibilities! When we are up against it we can stop what we are doing and just allow our inner guide (that came with the body) to present new possibilities, a turn not anticipated, and let it form. Then, just lean into it. I’m a big believer of ‘leaning into’ to see how something feels.
So, Michael, I believe external factors definitely present us with the experiences which we have created by our thinking. I couldn’t agree more with you. Thanks fellas, its been great.
July 24, 2008 at 8:08 am
Gee, if your theory is correct, I am about to advance to the top of the world! Great TT.
July 24, 2008 at 8:21 am
Hi Jan,
Thanks for that. Such debates are what this blog is all about. My posts are aimed at stimulating as much as attempting to explain. Keeping conceptual thinking alive has never been more important, in a world that seems to be actively discouraging it.
Hi Julie,
Hopefully I’ll see you up there
July 24, 2008 at 12:14 pm
I suppose frustration with the current situation would have to drive all change by definition. If we were completely satisfied, what would there be to change?
July 24, 2008 at 12:21 pm
Life is definitely a compromise. I am glad to hear that you are feeling better and back among the blogging.
July 24, 2008 at 1:11 pm
well seeking for balance is my constant goal and dealing w/ people will eventually lead to frustration
July 24, 2008 at 2:10 pm
Hi Robin,
That’s exactly my point. Contentment is great, but doesn’t give much incentive.
Hi Pjazzypar,
Thanks for that. I didn’t give up blogging completely. Just had to cut down a bit.
Hi Marcia,
‘Tis often the way, I’m afraid
July 24, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Frustration does get to me Anthony! I need to learn how to make use of it in the way you demonstrate in your post…
July 24, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Hi Mary,
Absolutely. But it’s so hard at times, isn’t it?
July 24, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Great list, happy TT!
July 24, 2008 at 4:42 pm
I wonder why some of us get frustrated so much easier than others? I think it’s just part of my type A personality, and I also think it’s one of the many secrets to success!
July 24, 2008 at 4:43 pm
It would be so helpful for us to realize that we can only control our own focus of thoughts - not what comes into our mind, but what we choose to focus on and hold there.
I think this is the key to everything, Jan. Frustration is temporary dissatisfaction with how things appear, but continual frustration can lead to a more or less permanent dissatisfaction with how things appear, which we call depression.
There’s an article I just came across yesterday by Colin Wilson you might enjoy that explores states of mind and the role of thought: Below the Iceberg.
I’ve enjoyed the dialogue, Anthony. I agree that “hammering home the message that it is doctrine only because we allow it to be” is critically important.
If we differ at all, it’s that I’d say that recognizing that is the first step towards self-realization. Recognizing doctrine and paradigms for what they are, which are constructs of accepted thought, is the first step towards freedom. I also don’t think self-realization is something anyone can offer another, countless gurus notwithstanding. The only self anyone can ever realize is their own. In the end, I think if we go deep enough we will eventually discover that we all share the same self, which brings us right back to idealism.
All the best.
July 24, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Hi Chris,
Thanks for that.
Hi Forgetfulone,
A good question. I would suggest the more frustrated exist on a scale ranging from impatience to perfectionist.
Hi Michael,
There isn’t much in that last paragraph I would disagree with. Of all systems of thought, I can identify with idealism. I can identify with the wide ranging importance of mind over materialism. I can identify with finding communality within the deep self. I’ve written almost the same often, and it forms a huge part of my own work.
But there is one major area where we disagree. No matter how attractive the system is, I am convinced through evidence, instinct and everything we know about ourselves and the universe, that there cannot be an absolutely true system of thought.
This has been fun. And all the best to you, too
July 24, 2008 at 6:13 pm
You’re right, you know. Frustration is like longing — it’s uncomfortable, but it can be very useful. (Thanks for visiting my TT)
July 24, 2008 at 6:36 pm
But there is one major area where we disagree. No matter how attractive the system is, I am convinced through evidence, instinct and everything we know about ourselves and the universe, that there cannot be an absolutely true system of thought.
Yep, you’re right. This is where we disagree. In the end, I think we actually exist within an absolutely true system of thought, and most of us fail to see it because we convince ourselves that it’s our personal thoughts that are absolute.
July 24, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Hi The Gal Herself,
Thanks for that. It certainly seems that way.
July 25, 2008 at 3:02 am
Good Morning Anthony,
Is it possible that Michael’s absolutely true system of thought is actually the Universal Consciousness that has been discussed previously. If we tap into this ‘field’ at a sub-conscious level is it also possible that by the time the ‘concept’ has reached conscious level it has been ‘modified’ by our cultural beliefs thereby rendering it ineffective as a true system of thought?
Also, isn’t everything that we know about ourselves and the universe only what we (currently) think we know?
I agree with your small steps theory, “A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.”, however, a destination (the big picture) is also required if the journey is a planned one rather than sight-seeing and you’re right again, it must begin with a message, which is what I think each of your posts is really all about.
This has been an excellent thread Anthony.
July 25, 2008 at 7:20 am
Good morning Chris,
Thanks for that, and I think you have a good grasp of it there. You see, idealism is the most beautiful, and most dangerous, idea ever. It is beautiful because it speaks of the One - the part and the whole are the same. It is the one constant in all mysticism. It has been at the centre of philosophy since Plato. It is finding echoes in particle theory. All this commends it.
It is dangerous because in ‘revealed truth’ we move away from the diversity of things to a single system, and that way, totalitarianism lies. It is dangerous because it merges the systems of thought, so science cannot exist as a separate thing, and the revealed truth lies at the heart of all fundamentalist religion.
It is dangerous because at this very moment there will be scores of gurus claiming it. If any one takes off, at the lower end of the scale you have the self-destructive cult, and at the higher end of the scale, civilisations crumble!
It is all in the interpretation of the message, as you say. And not just cultural infection, but individual infection. Further, when we reach a god-head, what do we really meet? Is there a fundamental reality out there/within, or is there, as I suspect, an infinite number of realities?
Infection on truth at all levels.
I accept the basic premise of idealism, but at best I think we should view it as a ‘mechanism’, upon which realities are impressed. As I’ve said elsewhere, the intelligence in cosmic consciousness is most likely inputted by the user, and not endemic to the consciousness itself.
July 25, 2008 at 8:18 am
Great post! One of the worst things about frustration is how it so quickly grows.
July 25, 2008 at 9:59 am
Hi Nicole,
Thanks for that. And yes, it can creep up on you very quickly indeed.
July 25, 2008 at 1:27 pm
I love your explanation of frustration. It occurs that frustration is what leads to innovation. Sorry you’re having health problems. I hope you continue to slot TT in.
My 13 is here.
July 25, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Hi Adamswife,
Thanks for that. And the best wishes.
July 25, 2008 at 7:00 pm
It is dangerous because it merges the systems of thought, so science cannot exist as a separate thing, and the revealed truth lies at the heart of all fundamentalist religion.
I don’t know, Anthony. I would say that the danger that’s involved has more to do with the tendency of those yet to realize the absolute depth of idealism to attempt to fix it in a certain place. Anyone who claims to represent absolute truth is misleading others; a true ‘guru’ will understand that the truth of idealism can be pointed to, but never fully articulated. An example of this is Krishnamurti’s statement that “Truth is a pathless land”. If more reached the land that is pathless though, science could only be greatly enhanced; the recognition and shared understanding that the material cosmos ultimately arises from consciousness itself would lead to insights and advancements that we can’t even conceive while we consider idealism as conceptual rather than know it to be true. Yet, the ‘knowing to be true’ forever remains on the level of individual realization. Idealism, understood as the primacy of consciousness, itself remains absolute, while any interpretation is necessarily incomplete. A society built on genuine idealism will understand that we are all experiencing reality from continually varying perspectives; we each experience a separate reality moment-to-moment, yet all perspectives share the same source in the One universal consciousness.
I think Anthony’s fear is that an elite cabal may again seize upon idealism as conceptually true, which can indeed lead to totalitarianism as the cabal moves to force their vision on others. What I’m suggesting is that as more understand the genuine truth of idealism through direct realization, the result will an expansion of individual freedom, and encouragement for others to discover the same truth for themselves. Force and fear are entirely antithetical to that end. I have no delusions that I will see this develop on a global scale in my lifetime, but I do think that the direct realization of the truth of idealism has already begun within humanity, and also that anyone can realize it for themselves right now.
I think Chris has expressed things exceptionally well: “If we tap into this ‘field’ at a sub-conscious level is it also possible that by the time the ‘concept’ has reached conscious level it has been ‘modified’ by our cultural beliefs thereby rendering it ineffective as a true system of thought?”
It’s precisely because of this that it can never be perfectly articulated. Once one realizes the power of thought itself for themselves, though, they become freer, and more open to the universal consciousness within themselves. If one learns to trust it, it can guide us to ever deeper realizations of that consciousness, as well as through our lives here on earth. It’s in ‘learning to trust’ that the real difficulty lies, especially for those of us in the West, because truly understanding idealism involves actually using our minds in a way that is counter to almost everything we’ve been taught to accept as true. To truly understand idealism, we have to experience the perspective beyond concepts, we have to be able to see our own intellect as a construct of the underlying consciousness. Once we do so, we find we still have an intellect, but no longer are the intellect. It’s a huge difference in inner perspective.
In any case, I agree with Chris that this has been a thought-provoking thread. That in itself is a very good thing if it leads just one person to reconsider the role of their own consciousness in reality interpretation, which I think is the first step on the journey that ultimately leads to the ‘pathless land’.
July 25, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Hi Michael,
I think the problem is summed up in your words:
‘Idealism, understood as the primacy of consciousness, itself remains absolute, while any interpretation is necessarily incomplete.’
As soon as the word ‘absolute’ enters vocabulary, ‘incomplete’ is replaced with dogma, and personally I cannot ever see that changing.
Idealism remains, for me, attractive as a form of universal connectedness - even getting to know yourself through meditation, etc. But in all things, moderation; and ‘all things’ is the key. Diversity. No ‘one’ system. And when ever one is suggested, I don’t buy it.
Still, I think it has all now been said. I won’t change your mind, and you won’t change mine. Perhaps this is the point to leave it, and let any readers make up their own mind.
Again, I think this has been a marvellous discussion.
July 26, 2008 at 2:24 am
Good Morning Anthony,
Definitely my last post on this one, I’m very afraid of the great WordPress comment eater greeting me with that ‘hello breakfast’ look in its eye.
Frustration is caused by ‘perceived’ adversity which may lead to enhanced psychic capability, an ability to more effectively ‘intuit’ knowledge.
I think that the Universal consciousness may in fact be a Universal collective ’sub-consciousness’ that we can both contribute to or glean (’intuit’ knowledge) from.
Cheers,
Chris
July 26, 2008 at 8:03 am
Hi Chris,
Yes, I think that fits in pretty much with things I’ve written in the past. With one proviso. Rather than intuit ‘knowledge’, I’d say ‘information’. Knowledge assumes intelligence to work something out, which, if I’m right, means the analysis to gain knowledge would have to be done in the person’s mind level, and not the collective.
July 31, 2008 at 3:10 am
Frustration….what makes us develop poison ivy balms and vacuum cleaners and hair spray. Maybe someday if will help us develop cars that don’t use as much gasoline.
July 31, 2008 at 8:09 am
Hi Lilibeth,
The ideas for those eco-cars are already there. Shame Big Biz is afraid of them.
August 7, 2008 at 1:38 am
I think frustration is most definitely a social problem. We very often make or break each other.
August 7, 2008 at 7:51 am
Hi Sandy,
This is very true. Those social pressures take a good idea and make it extreme, and then frustration piles up and up.